On page 35 of the first section, Andrew mentions playing story games with the students. What are story games?
Weeks 3 & 4 on the Year at a Glance, shows components of the Basic Persuasive Arrangement begin taught with the Definition Invention. Wouldn't the Definition Inventions be taught and used with the Definition Arrangements? I don't see the Definition Arrangments (pg. 20 - 23) listed on the Year at a Glance at all.
The Authority Invention is listed for lessons 10 and 11, but I could only find one Authority Invention form. Is this form used for two lessons and is it used with the Comparison Essay?
As I'm going through the material, my brain keeps calling for examples. I don't really think that complete essays are needed. Instead, I think essay topics, examples of ways the invention form might be used and/or examples of the essay component would be a tremendous help.
For example, I asked Andrew about a comparison/contrast essay using Grant and Lee as the subjects of the comparison. I didn't understand the narration component. He gave me this rough example as he was driving to Florida:
Exordium - Bugs Bunny outsmarting the pig (What's his name? Elmer Fudd)
Thesis - Grant better than Lee.
Enumeration (3) - 1. Used own Lee's aggression ; 2. Smoked cigar (just kidding); 3. Not held back by gentlemanly code of conduct
Narration - Prior to Grant's appointment, the Union Army was ------
That was just enough to get me off and running.
Thanks to anyone taking the time to answer questions.
I believe that the story game refers to a game Andrew has refined-the game of gathering a group and then taking turns orally building on a story. He has quite a few details on determining the type of story, characters, plot, twists, etc. We'll have to see if this is what he means and if he wants to post all the details.
It is my understanding that in a sense the invention, arrangement and elocution units are to be thought of as distinct units. Thus they won't always be a complete "essay" match. The invention of comparison is a valuable tool for more than just the comparison essay so it does not have to be immediately connected. You do have the option of teaching the comparison essay in lesson 6 or you can complete all the components of the persuasive. I know that Andrew expresses this on the CD-the importance of teaching them as distinct tools for writing. It is my understanding that this distinction leads to a greater understanding of the "universal" value of each component. Some of the ideas overlap, but they are not all designed to do that. So the definition invention is learned to be used immediately with the persuasive essay that you are building on. You would use this again later with a definition essay. I think the key is to remember that you are working on slowly building the parts of a persuasive essay (the middle column) and the other parts on the side are things that will be used again and again throughout the entire process-they are not distinctly connected to the work in the arrangement. Just as the trope of simile is not distinct to the arrangement essay in its same lesson, 5, comparison invention is not distinct to it either. (Be sure to let me know if all of that didn’t make sense!)
I have talked to Andrew a couple of times about the idea of the persuasive essay and he has made it clear that he starts with this because it the type of essay that encompasses almost every other type of essay. This is why he starts with this and not the typical descriptive or expository essay.
I spoke briefly with Camille yesterday afternoon, and she also told me that all of the invention exercises can be used with the persuasive essay. With the information she gave me and what you wrote, especially the concept that the middle column (arrangement) of the Year at a Glance is the core of where we are headed with the concepts taught in invention and elocution being used in all types of essays, I've got a much better idea of how to work with the material. I tried to sort my notebook with the modules following each other but have resorted it to the original sections now that I understand we will be working through the persuasive essay using most of the invention and elocution modules.
I think you are so right! I am reminded as we are progressing that I can teach the form of writing quite easily. The challenge is what is written in that form. Our questions are key-my students can come up with some no-brainers that I have no desire for them to spend time developing. At the same time, some students have come up with great questions that I am delighted to see them pursue. I try to develop questions that deal with the "idea", the heart of the something. I know that I am not asking the very best questions I could ask, but with practice it is getting better! I think the key is to keep asking questions-I know you ask very good questions!
Can you give me an example of a no-brainer question? I would suggest that almost any yes or no deliberative question will be useful because of the follow up questions - the topics of invention.
To be honest, the no-brainer questions are probably more correctly the "questions that wear thin for a writing teacher with many junior high boys." These are questions like "Whether we should use robotic laser guns." I allow the students to work with these questions for a time, but we tend to have a more productive conversation with something less "graphic". So I do think there are "better" questions for the classtime discussion.
Can you give me an example of a no-brainer question? I would suggest that almost any yes or no deliberative question will be useful because of the follow up questions - the topics of invention.
Andrew
Andrew, in theory I agree with you, but I have noticed in practise that some questions seem much better suited to help students - at least some students - develop the skills we're teaching, especially in the early stages when they don't know how to really develop all the topics. For instance, my then-11yo had a really hard time coming up with enough items on an ANI to write about the issue, "Whether I should paint the closet yellow." Perhaps her older sister could have developed that one more, but there were only so many things she could think of to say for and against painting, the closet, or the colour yellow. I think even I would have a hard time getting much in the way of essay material out of that one without being a lot more creative or humorous than they've been taught to be so far, or than my literal-minded youngster knows how to be yet.
But an issue with more concrete terms, complex terms, or more terms goes a lot farther. "Whether we should move to Pennsylvania" was much easier for my children to develop, because they've moved several times and know what that entails, and they've also lived in PA before - so they didn't need to have as complete a grasp of the topics to find ways to use them on that issue. "Pennsylvania" was an easier concept to think about than "yellowness." Our current "master" issue ("Whether the Hogwarts students should have obeyed Umbridge") has a lenghthy ANI just from the topic of definition. I think it should last us at least half the year before we tire of it, and I think we'll tire of it before we exhaust it, since it both stems from a source that they know well, and involves large questions about the nature and source of authority and the responsibilities that go with it.
I'm noticing something as a re-read what I've written so far: it seems to help (at least for my younger children) if they are familiar with the topic they write about. My older two can abstract enough from their reading to write fairly readily about good and bad kings, and the 18yo can write an essay about almost anything, but the 12yo thinks it's easier to write about our pets than King Arthur (her sister rolls her eyes at that thought). She thought it would be easy to write about painting her room because it was her room, but she's never painted anything before, so she couldn't think of much to put on her ANI. "Obedience" is more abstract than "Painting," but she's done more obeying (and not obeying) than painting. Hmmm. I am not sure whether this will help anyone reading, but since I seemed to have learned something from the process of writing it, I will post it anyway.
I'm so gald you posted this. What you described has been our experience, but I didn't understand what was happening. My oldest had trouble with a literature question (whether Robin Hood should have stollen from the bishop to help the knight). Since I hadn't read the book and wasn't able to help him much we abandoned that one.
Nicely put. To draw from our experience is always easier. That's why we use the Didactic sequence to teach. The trick, as you noted from the yellow painting question, is knowing where we actually have experience.
I humbly and gratefully accept your qualifications to my theory about asking questions. Any question is useful when the person is well able to use the five topics.
For example, Kendall, once you and your children are comfortable with the five, the Robin Hood question should be no big deal because your child will be able to compare Robin Hood with anybody who has ever stolen anything or worn green or lived in the woods or in England or has had a sword or in any other way exists or acts.
But until then you might find it best to stay with things you are all experienced in. The good news is that comparison is the second topic. Say good bye to the problem of coming up with something to say!
